{"id":86337,"date":"2025-11-30T09:00:30","date_gmt":"2025-11-30T09:00:30","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.cryptocabaret.com\/?p=86337"},"modified":"2025-11-30T09:00:30","modified_gmt":"2025-11-30T09:00:30","slug":"yout-and-riaa-clash-in-court-over-youtubes-alleged-copyright-barriers","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.cryptocabaret.com\/?p=86337","title":{"rendered":"Yout and RIAA Clash in Court Over YouTube\u2019s Alleged Copyright Barriers"},"content":{"rendered":"

\"youtFive years ago, YouTube ripper Yout.com sued the RIAA<\/a>, asking a Connecticut district court to declare that the site does not violate the DMCA\u2019s anti-circumvention provision.<\/p>\n

The music group had previously used DMCA takedown notices to remove many of Yout\u2019s links from Google\u2019s search results. This had a significant impact on Yout\u2019s advertising revenues, according to operator Johnathan Nader, who always believed he wasn\u2019t breaking any laws.<\/p>\n

In 2022, the district court concluded<\/a> that Yout had failed to show that it doesn\u2019t circumvent YouTube\u2019s technological protection measures. That rendered Yout\u2019s defamation and business disparagement claims moot, but the legal battle was far from over.<\/p>\n

Yout.com Appeals<\/h2>\n

Yout\u2019s operator did not give up. In 2023, Nader appealed<\/a> in the belief that YouTube rippers do not violate the DMCA. The argument received backing from the EFF and GitHub<\/a> in their supporting amicus briefs.<\/p>\n

The RIAA disagreed, countering<\/a> that Yout is an \u201cillicit stream-ripping service\u201d that effectively allows people to \u201cbypass YouTube\u2019s technological restrictions\u201d that prevent downloading of works streamed through YouTube. As such, the service violates the DMCA, a position supported<\/a> by the Copyright Alliance.<\/p>\n

One of the key issues in this dispute is whether YouTube\u2019s \u201crolling cipher\u201d<\/a> is a technological measure designed to control access to<\/em> or copying of<\/em> copyrighted works. The difference between access and copying has become a key point of contention in a new AI twist. <\/p>\n

AI Relevance: Access Controls vs. Copy Controls<\/h2>\n

Last month, AI music companies Suno and Udio filed an amicus brief at the Court of Appeals, alerting it to an alleged error the Connecticut district court made in its original ruling against Yout. <\/p>\n

Suno and Udio, who were both sued by music companies, argued that the lower court\u2019s ruling failed to recognize the difference between \u201caccess controls\u201d and \u201ccopy controls\u201d. This is crucial, they noted, as Congress explicitly separated these two copyright controls to enable fair use. <\/p>\n

Congress recognized that to claim fair use, people have to copy something first. If the law were to prohibit the circumvention of copying restrictions, fair use would be effectively outlawed as well.<\/p>\n

\u2013 Circumventing access controls is prohibited<\/strong> under 17 U.S.C. \u00a7 1201<\/p>\n

\u2013 Circumventing copy controls is NOT explicitly prohibited<\/strong> under 17 U.S.C. \u00a7 1201.<\/p>\n

For AI companies like Suno and Udio, the legal distinction between access controls and copy controls is not just a technicality. It\u2019s the difference between having a viable fair use defense and being automatically liable for massive damages.<\/p>\n

If the court rules that YouTube\u2019s \u201crolling cipher\u201d is an access control, Suno and Udio effectively lose their ability to argue fair use for the data they\u2019ve scraped by accessing YouTube.<\/p>\n

Yout Cites New Paywall Defense<\/h2>\n

Last week, Yout\u2019s legal team told the Court of Appeals that they wholeheartedly agree with Suno and Udio. In a response brief, they note that the AI companies have it precisely right.<\/p>\n

Yout\u2019s lawyer, Evan Fray-Witzer, once again stresses that YouTube doesn\u2019t have any access controls, as it is obvious that anyone with a web browser can watch videos on the platform. <\/p>\n

\u201cThe District Court\u2019s opinion ignores the simple fact [\u2026] that the videos displayed on YouTube are freely available to \u2018anyone who requests them\u2019 without a paywall, encryption, password, or decryption,\u201d Yout\u2019s response reads. <\/p>\n

To back this up, Yout points to a very recent ruling: the July 2025 decision in a lawsuit between Emmerich Newspapers and the news aggregator Particle Media, better known as NewsBreak.<\/p>\n

In that case, a court ruled that the news aggregator didn\u2019t violate the DMCA when its bots stripped \u201cpaywall code\u201d from the newspaper\u2019s website. The judge concluded that, because the newspaper\u2019s server voluntarily sent the full article text to the bot (including the paywall code), the bot didn\u2019t \u201cbreak in\u201d to an access-controlled area. Instead, it simply \u201cused\u201d the data it was given in a way the publisher disliked.<\/p>\n

Yout stresses that the same logic applies to its interaction with YouTube. Because YouTube sends audio and video data to anyone who visits the site without requiring a password, Yout argues the \u201cgates are up,\u201d making it legally impossible to \u201ccircumvent\u201d an access control.<\/p>\n

RIAA: You Can Watch, But You Can\u2019t Touch<\/h2>\n

The RIAA also filed a brief in response to Suno and Udio, urging the Court of Appeals to reject the arguments from these AI companies. <\/p>\n

RIAA\u2019s central argument is that YouTube\u2019s \u201crolling cipher\u201d is designed to distinguish between two different things: access to a performance (the stream) and access to the work (the fixed digital file).<\/p>\n

The RIAA agrees that YouTube allows people to view the stream, but they argue that the rolling cipher is designed to control access to the underlying fixed file.<\/p>\n

\u201cAmici\u2019s argument conflates access to a \u2018performance\u2019 of a work with access to the \u2018work\u2019 itself,\u201d the RIAA writes. In bypassing the cipher to download the file, stream-rippers such as Yout can access something YouTube never intended to give: a permanent digital copy.<\/p>\n

While YouTube allows the public to view the performances without restriction, it uses the \u201crolling cipher\u201d to restrict direct access to the underlying file. By modifying this cipher, Yout bypasses a valid access control, the RIAA notes.<\/p>\n

The YouTube Whisperers<\/h2>\n

Both sides clearly have an opinion on how and why YouTube implemented its rolling cipher code. However, YouTube itself is not a party to the lawsuit, nor has it filed an amicus brief to explain its technology.<\/p>\n

Yout\u2019s lawyer previously argued that there is a legal vacuum where the court has to guess YouTube\u2019s intentions, instead of moving the case forward so YouTube itself can be heard.<\/p>\n

\u201cThere is a question as to what YouTube intended with these measures. We don\u2019t know because YouTube isn\u2019t here,\u201d Yout\u2019s lawyer argued in a previous hearing<\/a>.<\/p>\n

The RIAA, however, argues that YouTube\u2019s intent is irrelevant. The music group maintains that the DMCA only cares about whether a measure \u201ceffectively controls access\u201d in its ordinary operation, not what the engineers were thinking when they wrote the code.<\/p>\n

Suno & Udio Settle: Yout Continues<\/h2>\n

Interestingly, both Suno and Udio settled their legal disputes with several major music labels recently, opting for licensing deals instead. <\/p>\n

Udio settled its copyright dispute with Universal Music Group in October, followed by a similar agreement with Warner Music Group in November. Earlier this week, Suno followed suit, announcing a \u201clandmark\u201d partnership with Warner Music Group.<\/p>\n

These settlements were agreed upon after Suno and Udio submitted their amicus brief in the legal battle between Yout and the RIAA. This means that their critique and the responses from both Yout and the RIAA still stand. Whether the Court of Appeals agrees remains to be seen.<\/p>\n

\u2014<\/em><\/p>\n

A copy of Yout\u2019s response to the brief of Suno and Udio is available here (pdf)<\/a>. RIAA\u2019s response can be found here (pdf)<\/a>.<\/p>\n

From: TF<\/a>, for the latest news on copyright battles, piracy and more.<\/p>\n

Powered by WPeMatico<\/a><\/small><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Five years ago, YouTube ripper Yout.com sued the RIAA, asking a Connecticut district court to declare that the site does not violate the DMCA\u2019s anti-circumvention provision. The music group had previously used DMCA takedown notices to remove many of Yout\u2019s links from Google\u2019s search results. This had a significant impact on Yout\u2019s advertising revenues, according […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":86338,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[308],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-86337","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-torrent"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.cryptocabaret.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/86337","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.cryptocabaret.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.cryptocabaret.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.cryptocabaret.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.cryptocabaret.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=86337"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.cryptocabaret.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/86337\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.cryptocabaret.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/media\/86338"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.cryptocabaret.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=86337"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.cryptocabaret.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=86337"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.cryptocabaret.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=86337"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}